Curse

JimmyDean · Dec 20, 2006, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

At this point there's nothing more to discuss, so it's more fun to post stuff stolen from the internet.

Warriors are more effective pressure than sf eles and they can cause disruption too.

Thank you for your contributions. Your argument has swayed me and I feel I must now spread the good word that Searing Flames is balanced.

-.- · Dec 20, 2006, 06:08 AM // 06:08

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Originally Posted by JimmyDean

1) Neither will the warrior when hes hexed, what is your point?

That everything has a counter and this is just beating a dead horse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyDean

4) Again, back to the monk expending his energy to remove burning. If I were to run Searing Flames, I wouldn't target the person way off in the corner with no additional nearby targets; I'm going to be dropping that bomb where it will cause the most damage. He can remove my burning all day long and I'm fine with that. It just means he has less energy to heal his party as the battle continues. Also, in regards to Searing Flames costing 15 and Mend costing 5, monks dont get attunements, glowing gaze, or a monstrous energy pool.

Only the Attunement and Energy pool favors into the Searing Flame spammer. Glowing Gaze only helps if the Elementalist can hit a target that is burning, but in this case it doesn't help but waste 5 energy. With the Attunement factored in, Searing Flames costs 9 or 10 energy each cast. Which is still around 1/10 of a Elementalist energy bar. Don't forget that the Elementalist still has to renew the Attunement in order to still pay only 9 or 10 energy. Which a Monk still pays around 1/10 of his/her energy bar but doesn't have to waste energy to keep a Condition removal 1/10 of the energy bar.

This is really beating a dead horse. Discussion end.

Searing Flames is no way Overpowered and that is my opinion on the matter.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 20, 2006, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyDean

Thank you for your contributions. Your argument has swayed me and I feel I must now spread the good word that Searing Flames is balanced.

I'm glad I was able to be so persuasive

JimmyDean · Dec 20, 2006, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by -.-

That everything has a counter and this is just beating a dead horse.

Only the Attunement and Energy pool favors into the Searing Flame spammer. Glowing Gaze only helps if the Elementalist can hit a target that is burning, but in this case it doesn't help but waste 5 energy. With the Attunement factored in, Searing Flames costs 9 or 10 energy each cast. Which is still around 1/10 of a Elementalist energy bar. Don't forget that the Elementalist still has to renew the Attunement in order to still pay only 9 or 10 energy. Which a Monk still pays around 1/10 of his/her energy bar but doesn't have to waste energy to keep a Condition removal 1/10 of the energy bar.

This is really beating a dead horse. Discussion end.

Searing Flames is no way Overpowered and that is my opinion on the matter.

The monk wont be able to remove burning from each target before I could cast glowing gaze.

Either way, GG, see you post nerf.

JimmyDean · Dec 20, 2006, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

I'm glad I was able to be so persuasive

Lol. (twelve characters)

-.- · Dec 20, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyDean

The monk wont be able to remove burning from each target before I could cast glowing gaze.

Either way, GG, see you post nerf.

And if said Skill is nerfed, I know who to blame it on....the whiny PvP players that can't adapt.

Thallandor · Dec 20, 2006, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyDean

Rant posts on this forum will carry very little weight in the decision of whether or not a skill gets nerfed. I'm just arguing my opinion since I think it's right.

What you think is right isnt neccessary truth. Its an opinion just like mine. However aruging for aruging sake is in its essence, a waste of time and energy.

My concerns lies only with misinformation of other forumers and trying to spread skill hate propaganda without addressing the issue in due course. Hence creating the illusion of a problem which may not exist or exist merely due to ignorance.

Which to my perception is what you are trying to do of which i shall continue to rebuke your statements as long as you choose to do so, as will other members of this forum.

Symbol · Dec 20, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31

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1) Higher single target dps still can't compare to hitting two or 3 people with burning and 119 damage.

If you routinely catch two or three enemies in the blast, then they suck. Ever heard of positioning?

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2) Fragile energy management (I assume you mean attunement) isn't nearly as bad as the easily shut down warrior (blind, a plethora of hexes and protective enchantments, stances, and simple kiting).

Wrong. Warrior shutdown only stays effective for the duration of the hex/condition. Strip an elementalist's attunement when it comes up and you've screwed him over for the better part of 45 seconds, since he'll run out of E long before the recharge comes up. Even worse if you dshot/divert the predictable SF/GG spam.

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3) Diversion on dslash will hurt that warrior just as much as diversion will hurt the ele.

Learn the difference between a .66/.44555 sec dslash (no IAS, IAS, interrupt has to occur before the hit lands) that lands every 6 to 8 seconds subject to the vagaries of adrenaline gain, and a 1 sec cast searing flames that hits every 3 seconds pretty much on the dot (since you want to spam it as much as possible).

One of these things is MUCH harder to shutdown with diversion/dshot. And said dragon slasher can still autoattack and spread DW+bleeding without his elite, what's that SF ele going to do-wand?

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4) Burning is not affected by RoF, and 119 damage will overpower RoF, while dslash will not.

Yeah, burning bypasses RoF, but it isn't terrible strong by itself either.

Furthermore, do you even play a warrior? 90% of the time you'll trigger ROF with a regular hit or maybe something like sever or sun and moon slash. Claiming that you'll always catch RoF with dragon is ludicrous.

Meanwhile everything on that SF ele's bar is pretty much in the sweet spot for RoF's damage mitigation (SF, GG, liquid flame).

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5) Based on 1-4, I would have to disagree.

You'd be wrong.

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6) Since when is disagreeing with you considered "trollery"?

Trollery is your retarded "elementalists do incredible damage, but I'm not going to tell you how" speech.

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7) I have a level 20 PvE char for every proffesion that I regularly play in PvP and PvE. I've unlocked nearly every skill and GvG every night. I've been playing for 18 months and have over 3,100 hours. Not much more to say on that point.

It's astonishing how you've managed to learn so little then.

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So, uh...yeah. Do you have any valid points?

All of them.

Mysterial · Dec 20, 2006, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyDean

It will be just like how they added "Cant Touch This!" and all of the sudden nearly all the touch rangers disappeared.

I'm sorry, I know arguing with you is pointless, but I can't help it, this line is hilarious. Have you actually ever tried "Can't Touch This!" in the shipping game? It's worthless. Certainly a touch ranger isn't going to care. The reason there's a lot fewer touch rangers is because people learned how to deal with them.

Dutch Masterr · Dec 20, 2006, 04:29 PM // 16:29

please lets not start saying warriors are over powered....

Thom Bangalter · Dec 20, 2006, 04:33 PM // 16:33

they used to be overpowered, but the changes to eviscerate plus the introduction of dervishes helped balance them out. 5 energy gale and a +42 damage, 7 adrenaline eviscerate was pretty disgusiting. The game added a second viable melee class and nerfed eviscerate to a respectable level where other skills are actually seeing play in the axe line.

Symbol · Dec 20, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Warriors aren't overpowered and neither is searing flames. Right now there's a good tradeoff to be made between choosing a SF ele and a warrior, the first delivers a greater % of peak damage output (due to being ranged and instant hit) and can punish poor positioning really harshly, while warriors are less vulnerable to disruption and have a stronger spike.

Right now, for the first 1 or 2 damage slots people still pick melee (usually warriors) over a SF ele.

Dutch Masterr · Dec 21, 2006, 02:35 AM // 02:35

this may be very off topic of the thread, but in what way and when did they nerf eviscerate? i only recently started using it on my warrior.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 21, 2006, 02:53 AM // 02:53

It was a long, long time ago; and it was two-fold. First, back around when I first started playing they increased the adrenaline cost to 8, and then, a few months back, they decreased the damage. It used to be executioner's+deep wound, and it was hax. Now it's slightly more toned down, but still incredibly powerful.

Phades · Dec 21, 2006, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thallandor

2)PvP: No one is telling you to use the "Lets bunch up for SF!" shout.

I believe that shout is called "somebody set us up with the bomb". The companion shout "what happened" stuns the party for 4..8 seconds while a graphical effect of gwen pops up and states that "all your base are belong to us". Of course following this, the surviving warrior auto triggers "for great justice!" before dying.

Franco Power · Dec 21, 2006, 01:50 PM // 13:50

lol thom wasnt that long ago

bout a month or so ago, they reduced 8 dmg or something like that

Eviscerate is still one of the greatest warrior elites imo

Xpl0iter · Dec 22, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

I believe that shout is called "somebody set us up with the bomb". The companion shout "what happened" stuns the party for 4..8 seconds while a graphical effect of gwen pops up and states that "all your base are belong to us". Of course following this, the surviving warrior auto triggers "for great justice!" before dying.

haha
added to my quote list

iksarious noom · Dec 22, 2006, 11:40 PM // 23:40

there deffinately needs to b a nerf on searing flames, buy blinding surge, i'm fine with. it's not as overused as searing flames is and it's only good on dealing with more than one melee target. but searing flames has bcome the new iway and that's something i really don't enjoy, i mean sure, one in a gvg group or 1-2 in a HA group if decent to deal with. but when u have ppl spamming 5-6 searing flames, it's a joke. but at least they can't heroway it nemore in HA

clawofcrimson · Dec 23, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

I posted a very useful build against SF eles in AB/RA for paragons...check it out in paragon forum... frigid armour is an excellent skill to counter and can be used by anyone... SF does nothing while frigid is up... If complaining about getting pwned by SF why not bring this skill?

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10070565

and please...this was an interesting discussion...until all the flames started spreading to this thread....cmon keep em in game...

Thom Bangalter · Dec 23, 2006, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Sacrificing a skill slot for a very, very marginal skill is not countering. Diversion is countering. Spreading out is countering. D shotting is countering. Bringing frigid armor just means you have no concept of how team builds work. Of course it's AB/RA, but one character with frigid armor is going to leave you alive while the rest of the team burns to death.

Extinguish is a decent counter on recharge, but isn't reliable enough to be used effectively, it just mitigates a lot of damage, but doesn't shut them down. I like it quite a bit, but it's not strong enough to actually stop them, just slow them down enough that you can (hopefully) wipe the other team.